the As part of this past weekend’s Bitcoin 2024 conference in Nashville, Tennessee, Rep. Wiley Nickel (D, NC), a member of the House Financial Services Committee, took to the stage to make the Democrats’ case for digital assets.
At nearly the same time as his appearance on Saturday, The Financial Times reported that the campaign of VP Kamala Harris – the Democrats’ presumed Presidential nominee – was seeking a ‘reset’ with crypto companies after the industry weathered a turbulent relationship with the Biden Administration and its regulators, especially Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) Chair Gary Gensler.
In spite of the Administration’s point-of view, Rep. Nickel has remained a steady advocate for a new digital assets regulatory framework among Congressional Democrats.
blockchain tipsheet caught up with the Congressman on Saturday and discussed:
-
- Rep. Nickel’s experience at Bitcoin 2024
- Partisanship at the conference
- The letter sent to the Democratic National Committee by Rep. Nickel and other Dems
- Building trust between VP Kamala Harris and the digital assets community
- The impact of crypto community campaign donations
- Key learnings from the SAB 121 votes
- Legislative possibilities in the 118th Congress
- Next steps, post-Congress, for Rep. Nickel
This interview has been lightly edited for clarity.
blockchain tipsheet: How has Bitcoin 2024 gone for you? Any surprises?
Rep. Wiley Nickel: It’s been a great visit here in Nashville. We’re doing a lot of good meetings with stakeholders while I’m in town, a lot of interviews as well.
I think it was a very productive session this morning: I got to preview the letter that we sent and [discuss] the Harris campaign “reset” so I think that was noteworthy from the stage today. It did not go over as well when I used Donald Trump’s own words against him. As recently as just a few years ago, he called it all a total scam. I think it’s important to know that Donald Trump is just totally full of it, and will say anything, anytime.(…)
Are you sensing partisanship in the discussion around digital assets there in Nashville?
Rep. Nickel: I think there’s been a lot of people who are not really into digital assets or Bitcoin, who are here to wave the flag for Trump – it’s a red state, we’re in Tennessee. So, we saw a lot of that, but the point I’m making is that politicizing this issue is going to set us back a decade. The only way we’re going to move forward on this is in a bipartisan way. And if we don’t, it’s going to make it really difficult to do things in Congress.
My hope is that Donald Trump will send a bipartisan message that he wants to work together with congressional Republicans and congressional Democrats to do this. But I know for a fact there’s no way he’s ever going to get to try to do this and and reach out to Independents and Democrats on big issues like the future of digital assets.
Moving to your letter, you and other Democratic Members as well as candidates were signatories on a letter dated Friday to leadership of the Democratic National Committee. What’s the outcome you’d like to see from that letter?
Rep. Nickel: What we’re looking for is just what was signaled today [in the FT] from the Harris’ campaign: a reset… [and] putting forward good positions that are pro-digital innovation, keeping those jobs in the United States.
I think we’re gonna get [a reset] because there are well over a million single-issue voters -that’s more than enough to tip the balance in Georgia, Arizona, North Carolina and other states.
This is a changing issue. It’s not in the same place that it was 4-8 years ago. Over 20% of registered voters own crypto. You need a presidential campaign that’s talking about those issues of financial inclusion[,for example]. I think we’re gonna see that from the Harris campaign now that she’s running in her own right.
There was reporting in the Financial Times that there’s a meeting coming up with the Harris team and leaders in the [digital assets] space. That hasn’t happened at all under Biden. It’s a big step forward and a great signal to the industry.
In the letter, you and others effectively call for the removal of SEC Chair Gary Gensler with a “pro-innovation” Chair. And then there are other stipulations that that you and other members provide. What would you say to those who have no confidence that Democratic leadership will follow through with ideas such as this, even if they agreed to it now AND Democrats win the White House in the fall?
Rep. Nickel: Yes. Well, there’s procedural stuff. Gary Gensler is at the SEC until 2026, so he’s going to be there. But, there will be a new [Chair] coming up in the next presidential administration, We’ll get to appoint somebody new to the SEC in that position.
It’s my hope that it will be someone who works on this issue in a bipartisan way and isn’t trying to move an entire industry overseas. That’s what we’re seeing under Gary Gensler’s leadership – it’s the wrong direction for our country. I’ve made that very clear over the last few years that I think he’s not serving the Administration’s interest with his regulation-by-enforcement approach.
Just going back to my question, how does someone listening to Democratic leaders such as yourself, such as the Harris campaign, and have confidence that they are going to really make changes in that next Administration and effectively move from an “anti-crypto” stance to a “pro-crypto” stance? How do they have confidence -is it just sort of hanging on tight and hoping?
Rep. Nickel: No, we’d like to see very specific policy statements.
I’ve suggested a different approach to the campaign for what they ought to be talking about and how they ought to be talking about it. An advisory committee is important, a meeting with industry leaders is also very important. And, there’s a lot of other things that they can do.
But, at the end of the day, they have very specific things they need to do if they want to compete for these voters. It’s been a crazy week, but their engagement with us has been very significant this week despite everything that’s going on. We’re gonna see. I think it’s going to be a great reset in coming days.
On donations… donations have skyrocketed to crypto PACs and crypto interests which support crypto-friendly candidates. It’s rumored that even today here in Nashville $30-50 million was raised in support of former President Trump at Bitcoin 2024 alone, for example. What’s your take on donations from crypto interests and they’re effect on current political campaigns?
Rep. Nickel: Anybody who raises money for political action is going to focus on its own issues and it’s just an area where you’re either “pro” or “anti.” I’ve seen people giving money to people [not just] based on Democrat or Republican, but based on how they stand on an issue. So, I think it’s important for any candidate – especially Vice President Harris – who’s now in this campaign in her own right.
I think we’re gonna see positive engagement and what I think I can say about Vice President Harris is that she’s someone who wants to work in a bipartisan way, she doesn’t want to politicize this issue. For people who care about it, and want to make sure that we do this working together hand-in-hand with Republicans, Donald Trump is going to politicize the issue for his own gains, but that’s not going to help get anything done in Congress.
Moving on to the SEC’s Staff Accounting Bulletin 121 (SAB 121), and looking back at the override vote for rescinding SAB 121 earlier this month, the vote total among Democrats who favored rescinding SAB 121 by voting for the override barely budged from the original vote total in May. What did you learn from the process?
Rep. Nickel: For many Democrats, the policy arguments were very convincing. But, you have to look at the timing of that vote. If the vote were… now… it might be different. But at that point, you had a lot of Democrats who just didn’t want to take the step of trying to override a sitting president. That’s a hard thing to do.
But, my job is just about moving forward and fixing things. We’ve got the budget and a standalone bill that do just that on SAB 121. And between those two approaches, I think one of them is going to get across the finish line in this Congress. So we’re going to have legislative action in a bipartisan way and put SAB 121 in the rear view mirror.
The legislative calendar for the 118 Congress is dwindling as you pointed out earlier. Do you see any digital asset-related legislation passing in the 118th Congress and getting signed into law, whether it’s rescinding SAB 121, stablecoins, Financial Innovation and Technology Act for the 21st Century (FIT 21)?
Rep. Nickel: I think there’s a very good likelihood on all three.
We’re gonna see a lot of action in the Senate next week. So, talk to me in a week and let’s see where we are there.
We have a “place” on all three of those issues: SAB 121, stablecoins where we’re very close with Maxine Waters and others – and FIT 21, where if you put both of those bills on the floor of the House, the Senate right now, they’d pass. So, we just need to get them to the floor for a vote.
I understand that Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D, NY) is very committed to getting it done. Whether it happens before the elections or after, I think there’s a good chance that we get there. I think the most likely outcome of the election could mean a very productive “lame duck” session with Democrats and Republicans working together in the final days of the Biden Administration on issues like stablecoins, FIT 21, SAB 121, safe banking.
Those are the four things that are interconnected in a positive way.
All I can do is get out there and put up a big number. We put up 71 Democrats on FIT 21 to show that this is a bipartisan issue and that gave it new life in the Senate. And now, the Senate has to act. If they can move legislation through the Senate, I know we’ll get it across the finish line in a bipartisan way in the House.
Your term in Congress is coming to an end in January. Yet, there’s a lot of downtime on the calendar in theory for you between now and that January date when you leave Congress due to recesses in Congress. What are your plans during that downtime?
Rep. Nickel: Well, I’m not retiring. I’ve got so much more work I want to do.
We’re trying to get four years of work done in two years. So, we’re full speed ahead, running through the tape. And we’ll continue to work with every ounce of my energy until the end of December, when I’m no longer in Congress. And then we’re taking a good look at our Senate seat in the next election. And, we should have some news about our US Senate seat in January next year.
Any interest in potentially joining a Harris administration, if that came to be?
Rep. Nickel: We have to win the election first. So, that’s my focus – just making sure that we elect Kamala Harris as our next president. And then you can figure out how you can serve… but really, we’re looking at the Senate as the main thing. I believe we’re gonna have an open seat in the next cycle and I’m excited about continuing the work I’ve started here.